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	<title>Comments on: How the Deaf Community came to be divided</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=31" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31</link>
	<description>"United we are strong; Divided, we are colonized"</description>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-437</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 05:30:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-437</guid>
		<description>Excellent!  I agree with everything you say.  It is a simple divide and conquer strategy by audists as mentioned in the MASK OF BENEVOLENCE by Harlan Lane.    Thanks for presenting facts that oughta blow everyone&#039;s minds.  I fully agree about the commadarie among deaf in the last century.

It started around 1880 and it took about twenty years for audism to take effect globally.   It is time for us to turn tables and reduce audism at all costs!

More needs to be done!

=)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent!  I agree with everything you say.  It is a simple divide and conquer strategy by audists as mentioned in the MASK OF BENEVOLENCE by Harlan Lane.    Thanks for presenting facts that oughta blow everyone&#8217;s minds.  I fully agree about the commadarie among deaf in the last century.</p>
<p>It started around 1880 and it took about twenty years for audism to take effect globally.   It is time for us to turn tables and reduce audism at all costs!</p>
<p>More needs to be done!</p>
<p>=)</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-352</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-352</guid>
		<description>I actually believe both MM and DonG are correct. 

Yes, there is the problem that Deaf people in England became deeply resentful of hard-of-hearing people or Deaf people who could speak well. These people were generally spoiled by missionaries in the British system who ran charities and Deaf Clubs. In England, however, there was a point before the term &quot;hard of hearing&quot; where Deaf people who could hear some or speak were called &quot;Deaf can speak.&quot;

I am not clear that the same division happened for the same reasons in the United States. In the US, things happened the way DonG said. There was a drive to classify students differently and get as many students who could speak into classrooms. Where I grew up, in public school in NYC, great emphasis was placed on whether you were deaf or hard of hearing. But other divisions exist. One example would be Deaf people who were educated at Gallaudet versus what&#039;s commonly termed &quot;grassroots&quot; Deaf people and the group commonly termed the hard-of-hearing. In New York, for example, many &quot;grassroots&quot; Deaf people are deeply suspicious of people who come from Gallaudet and &quot;tell them how they should sign&quot; (actual quote.) 

Our Deaf community is extremely diverse. MM ties Deafhood too strongly to Deaf Culture. Deaf Culture is one path people can take on the road called Deafhood. I think Dr. Ladd believes Deaf Culture is something every Deaf person gets a little of. This might or might not be true. I think it&#039;s vitally important to encourage diversity in the Deaf community. I think there is a drive to find a common bond with all Deaf people and that this bond COULD be ASL. It could also be our common experiences as people who are Deaf in a majority community that is hearing... I don&#039;t think every person in the Deaf community &#039;feels they are fine.&#039; I think they ARE fine - but, for example, Deaf people who became so while part of hearing families are probably still suffering a grieving process etc. etc. Our identities are diverse. That&#039;s what makes them real.

Anyway, Don, thanks for a good post, obviously inspired much discussion - Joseph</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually believe both MM and DonG are correct. </p>
<p>Yes, there is the problem that Deaf people in England became deeply resentful of hard-of-hearing people or Deaf people who could speak well. These people were generally spoiled by missionaries in the British system who ran charities and Deaf Clubs. In England, however, there was a point before the term &#8220;hard of hearing&#8221; where Deaf people who could hear some or speak were called &#8220;Deaf can speak.&#8221;</p>
<p>I am not clear that the same division happened for the same reasons in the United States. In the US, things happened the way DonG said. There was a drive to classify students differently and get as many students who could speak into classrooms. Where I grew up, in public school in NYC, great emphasis was placed on whether you were deaf or hard of hearing. But other divisions exist. One example would be Deaf people who were educated at Gallaudet versus what&#8217;s commonly termed &#8220;grassroots&#8221; Deaf people and the group commonly termed the hard-of-hearing. In New York, for example, many &#8220;grassroots&#8221; Deaf people are deeply suspicious of people who come from Gallaudet and &#8220;tell them how they should sign&#8221; (actual quote.) </p>
<p>Our Deaf community is extremely diverse. MM ties Deafhood too strongly to Deaf Culture. Deaf Culture is one path people can take on the road called Deafhood. I think Dr. Ladd believes Deaf Culture is something every Deaf person gets a little of. This might or might not be true. I think it&#8217;s vitally important to encourage diversity in the Deaf community. I think there is a drive to find a common bond with all Deaf people and that this bond COULD be ASL. It could also be our common experiences as people who are Deaf in a majority community that is hearing&#8230; I don&#8217;t think every person in the Deaf community &#8216;feels they are fine.&#8217; I think they ARE fine &#8211; but, for example, Deaf people who became so while part of hearing families are probably still suffering a grieving process etc. etc. Our identities are diverse. That&#8217;s what makes them real.</p>
<p>Anyway, Don, thanks for a good post, obviously inspired much discussion &#8211; Joseph</p>
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		<title>By: MM</title>
		<link>http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-345</link>
		<dc:creator>MM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 14:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-345</guid>
		<description>I think you are avoiding the fact Don, most issues these days are coming from fellow deaf and HI people, because hearing mainstream wouldn&#039;t come here to discriminate or attack.  What you are seeing and others in the &#039;Deaf&#039; world is the rise of the non-deaf, the non-signer, the oral users, the hearing and CI aid users even the hard of Hearing have a voice now.  Deaf are finding it very difficult to embrace that diversity, and THAT is the problem, because they find it as difficult to communicate to them as they do with hearing,but it is quite wrong to tar us with the same brush.

There are as you say &#039;Many roads to  your deafhood&#039; you will accept many won&#039;t take cultural deaf roads or directions ? and if they do not, are they damned or non-community ? what ?  You are just building a wall around yourself.  each will take their own path, they won&#039;t take Pady&#039;s... who  has amply demontsrated a lack of deaf awarenes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are avoiding the fact Don, most issues these days are coming from fellow deaf and HI people, because hearing mainstream wouldn&#8217;t come here to discriminate or attack.  What you are seeing and others in the &#8216;Deaf&#8217; world is the rise of the non-deaf, the non-signer, the oral users, the hearing and CI aid users even the hard of Hearing have a voice now.  Deaf are finding it very difficult to embrace that diversity, and THAT is the problem, because they find it as difficult to communicate to them as they do with hearing,but it is quite wrong to tar us with the same brush.</p>
<p>There are as you say &#8216;Many roads to  your deafhood&#8217; you will accept many won&#8217;t take cultural deaf roads or directions ? and if they do not, are they damned or non-community ? what ?  You are just building a wall around yourself.  each will take their own path, they won&#8217;t take Pady&#8217;s&#8230; who  has amply demontsrated a lack of deaf awarenes.</p>
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		<title>By: DrDonG</title>
		<link>http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-302</link>
		<dc:creator>DrDonG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-302</guid>
		<description>Amy, 

The point of my post was that the Deaf community is divided along communication and hearing ability lines, but the division was created not by ourselves, but by the audist educational system.  The division was created long before the Cochlear Implant, so that is not relevant to what I was saying.  

But, even with the implant, Deaf people are not &quot;Hearing&quot;.  The implant itself doesn&#039;t even give real sound or sound in the SAME way that you as a Hearing person perceives it.  

You say the division has come from the Deaf side, and not the Hearing... well, you are looking at the result of practices conducted by Hearing people for over 100 years which have made Deaf people more suspicious of Hearing people.  If you look at the history, before 1880, Deaf people were more willing to interact with and be open with Hearing people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amy, </p>
<p>The point of my post was that the Deaf community is divided along communication and hearing ability lines, but the division was created not by ourselves, but by the audist educational system.  The division was created long before the Cochlear Implant, so that is not relevant to what I was saying.  </p>
<p>But, even with the implant, Deaf people are not &#8220;Hearing&#8221;.  The implant itself doesn&#8217;t even give real sound or sound in the SAME way that you as a Hearing person perceives it.  </p>
<p>You say the division has come from the Deaf side, and not the Hearing&#8230; well, you are looking at the result of practices conducted by Hearing people for over 100 years which have made Deaf people more suspicious of Hearing people.  If you look at the history, before 1880, Deaf people were more willing to interact with and be open with Hearing people.</p>
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		<title>By: DrDonG</title>
		<link>http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-301</link>
		<dc:creator>DrDonG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-301</guid>
		<description>Patrik --

Yes, the article is written.  It has not been published yet so I am not making it widely distributed.  I will post a pdf of the article after it has been published.  But if you are working on something and need specific references, let me know and I will share with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrik &#8211;</p>
<p>Yes, the article is written.  It has not been published yet so I am not making it widely distributed.  I will post a pdf of the article after it has been published.  But if you are working on something and need specific references, let me know and I will share with you.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrik</title>
		<link>http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-298</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-298</guid>
		<description>Very interesting! Did you write this article from your presentation? It would be great if I can get partly of your work and references. Good work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting! Did you write this article from your presentation? It would be great if I can get partly of your work and references. Good work!</p>
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		<title>By: amy</title>
		<link>http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-280</link>
		<dc:creator>amy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-280</guid>
		<description>Don
approximately half way (40% of the way) through you mentioned that oralists did not stop teaching deaf people to talk but that they kept failing because they couldn&#039;t give Deaf people hearing ability.  Then you went on to talk about the advances available to Deaf people to be able to access sound.   I guess I am not understanding the overall message of this post.  It seems that you are saying that Deaf people should be united in ASL however as you mentioned, there have been advances in hearing technology.  So why should there still be a united stand in ASL or is that not the point of your post?  I am curious why you did not mention the cochlear implant as an important part of history.  DS received his at 13 months old...I will be the first to tell you that, especially with his other issues, it has been &#039;interesting&#039; however even just today, my profoundly deaf son (almost 8) had his first real conversation on the phone- with the aid of this technology.  We may or may not learn ASL as his second language.  I am not at all opposed to this.  The problem is that to learn it I recognize that we should be in immersion.  I am happy to sign only in that setting however I do not feel welcomed in that type of setting  - I feel that the division has come from the Deaf side...and not the hearing...

I found you via DV where i am also a blogger however I focus on children w/ multiple disabilities.  Feel free to check it out.

Respectfully,
Amy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don<br />
approximately half way (40% of the way) through you mentioned that oralists did not stop teaching deaf people to talk but that they kept failing because they couldn&#8217;t give Deaf people hearing ability.  Then you went on to talk about the advances available to Deaf people to be able to access sound.   I guess I am not understanding the overall message of this post.  It seems that you are saying that Deaf people should be united in ASL however as you mentioned, there have been advances in hearing technology.  So why should there still be a united stand in ASL or is that not the point of your post?  I am curious why you did not mention the cochlear implant as an important part of history.  DS received his at 13 months old&#8230;I will be the first to tell you that, especially with his other issues, it has been &#8216;interesting&#8217; however even just today, my profoundly deaf son (almost <img src='http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> had his first real conversation on the phone- with the aid of this technology.  We may or may not learn ASL as his second language.  I am not at all opposed to this.  The problem is that to learn it I recognize that we should be in immersion.  I am happy to sign only in that setting however I do not feel welcomed in that type of setting  &#8211; I feel that the division has come from the Deaf side&#8230;and not the hearing&#8230;</p>
<p>I found you via DV where i am also a blogger however I focus on children w/ multiple disabilities.  Feel free to check it out.</p>
<p>Respectfully,<br />
Amy</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Nicholas</title>
		<link>http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-279</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Nicholas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-279</guid>
		<description>And MM, how do we work on uniting through our similarities?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And MM, how do we work on uniting through our similarities?</p>
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		<title>By: DrDonG</title>
		<link>http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-278</link>
		<dc:creator>DrDonG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-278</guid>
		<description>D.M. --

This comes from a historical perspective -- before the current era of hearing aids and Deaf who can use the phone and talk.  If you look back on the NEGADM constitution, you&#039;ll see those Deaf who could talk because they had become Deaf later, or some who might now be classified as &quot;hard of hearing&quot;.  But back then they didn&#039;t use those terms -- everyone was &quot;Deaf&quot; or &quot;Mute&quot; or semi- one or the other.  But you&#039;re right, it wasn&#039;t just audiologists who created the division -- speech teachers, regular teachers, and the whole Oralist educational system was involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D.M. &#8211;</p>
<p>This comes from a historical perspective &#8212; before the current era of hearing aids and Deaf who can use the phone and talk.  If you look back on the NEGADM constitution, you&#8217;ll see those Deaf who could talk because they had become Deaf later, or some who might now be classified as &#8220;hard of hearing&#8221;.  But back then they didn&#8217;t use those terms &#8212; everyone was &#8220;Deaf&#8221; or &#8220;Mute&#8221; or semi- one or the other.  But you&#8217;re right, it wasn&#8217;t just audiologists who created the division &#8212; speech teachers, regular teachers, and the whole Oralist educational system was involved.</p>
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		<title>By: deafmommie</title>
		<link>http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-277</link>
		<dc:creator>deafmommie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=31#comment-277</guid>
		<description>Hi Don,

I understand what you&#039;re saying but I&#039;m sorry that your argument is a little bit flawed. There were/are still profoundly deaf people who can speak and even can use the phone very well out there. Sometimes deaf people were classifed as HOH, later on, they found out that they weren&#039;t really HOH, it was just that they could speak/hear well. 

I think it just depends on a deaf individual if they are destined to be born with the ability to learn how to speak/hear well. 

I believe that the division among the deaf community was caused by speech audiologists/teachers who determined who and who couldn&#039;t speak/hear well, not because of their hearing loss degree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Don,</p>
<p>I understand what you&#8217;re saying but I&#8217;m sorry that your argument is a little bit flawed. There were/are still profoundly deaf people who can speak and even can use the phone very well out there. Sometimes deaf people were classifed as HOH, later on, they found out that they weren&#8217;t really HOH, it was just that they could speak/hear well. </p>
<p>I think it just depends on a deaf individual if they are destined to be born with the ability to learn how to speak/hear well. </p>
<p>I believe that the division among the deaf community was caused by speech audiologists/teachers who determined who and who couldn&#8217;t speak/hear well, not because of their hearing loss degree.</p>
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