“Horizontal Violence” and the Deaf Community
In this vlog, I explain the sociological concept of “Horizontal Violence” and how it applies to the Deaf Community.
In this vlog, I explain the sociological concept of “Horizontal Violence” and how it applies to the Deaf Community.
Drolz said,
July 14, 2008 @ 5:13 am
Hey Don,
Bingo! You hit the nail on the head. The latest DBC bashfest has had me so shellshocked that I dont know what to say. Im just flabbergasted. I was with them in the beginning and Im telling you they are GREAT people with GREAT intentions.
I have no problem with people who see flaws in DBC procedures and recommend better ways to do things — constructive criticism and feedback is always good (for example, Karen Mayes had a great suggestion that one of the next steps should be advocacy at hospitals, clinics, etc).
What really gets to me is I see some people demonstrating a perverse sense of pleasure in criticizing DBC. Now *that* is what makes me sick to my stomach. Remember that TV commercial where an old Indian peers across the landscape, sees litter everywhere, and a tear rolls down his cheek? That’s how I feel right now.
Great job identifying the root of the problem. Thank you for being a voice of reason.
DrDonG said,
July 14, 2008 @ 7:12 am
Hi Mark (Drolz) –
Yeah, that Indian is a good expression of how I’m feeling as well. And what really saddens me is that some people are gleefully jumping in and joining the bashing (of DBC and other people who are expressing ideas dissenting from their own) for what seems like a perverse sense of pleasure, as you put it. Or maybe it’s more like a wolfpack going in for the kill. And they accuse ASL and Deafhood activists of being “bullies”!
EricJindra said,
July 14, 2008 @ 7:13 am
Good morning,
I have to disagree with you on several things.
First of all, we need to focus on our deaf institutes and other schools such as Gallaudet University, etc because we are facing majority of our deaf children using drugs due to our trend as today that using drugs is really “cool” thing. I went through deaf institute in Fremont, and at Gallaudet. Many of our deaf children met each other through drugs sales, or possession share of drugs, and that lead them to do really crazy dramas. Many of our deaf children think that if you use drugs and you would be on “elite group.” Within that elite group and they are often thug or suppressor on other “normal” groups such as hardworking or deaf people who tries to make difference in their lives. Those “elite group” often make loudest voice in our deaf community. It is normal for those “elite groups” to be macho or something like that to keep their friends in tight group and making money through drugs sales or other than that. But with adults who keeps doing drugs and involves with “elite group” are very difficult encourage them to quit and be humble themselves before deaf community. Therefore, we need to focus on our children because our children are our future. If we plague our children and our future is plagued. We must find a way to change our children’s thinking that drugs is bad and we “adults” must set an example to our children! Many of us fail to establish an example for our children. Behold your behaviors when you dwell with children! Suppose we fails to establish our roles with children and what would you think of hearing parents with deaf children thinks of us? They won’t want to put their children to live as our lives which aren’t true (deaf stereotype on drugs, capacity, etc). My major concern is our deaf institutes and Gallaudet University because they fail to act up for drug education.
Secondly, I want to point that out with you that our problems aren’t from racism, any form of “ism”, or slavery. It all violence or evil thoughts came from our sin which that Adam and Eve plagued us in our generation of human beings. (Romans 5:12, Psalm 51:5). Any form of “ism” is from sin. Slavery and you have to be specific on what kind of slavery you were speaking of. There were two kind of slavery one is good slavery and other is bad slavery. Good slavery which master and servant is well respected, and love to each other. Bad slavery includes with violence, disrespecting, and looks down on servants, etc. Bible do teaches about slavery and it is not sin therefore you have to be specific on slavery. Great example, that I was slavery of sinful and now Jesus took me out of slavery of sin and he put me in slavery of righteous through Jesus. I don’t know about you but I am not going to discuss on that. My point is that your remarks of violence came from “ism” or slavery is incorrect.
Third, our deaf community faces a hugest problem with our pride. I have to admit that I was once a deaf militant marching for deaf power. I realized that it isn’t worth to do that because I was causing more problems for deaf community. So now I am humble before the society and I am resolving many problems than I could think. Did you realize that our deaf community is repeating the history with World War II? Nazi and they were building up military through angry of oppression, building up with nationalism pride, etc and what happened to them? They sow and reaped biggest lost from the war. Do we want to walk exactly like what Nazi went through? No way! How can we do that? Humble yourself before society! If we shove our pride against others and they will shoves their pride against us. What’s good from that picture? Nothing but it is wasting our time. We need educate our deaf community to be humble be kindful to others so that you can win their mind and heart.
I am very radical person because I am very conservative, free-thinker, very religious, strongly advocate for free economy market, small government, and my political party is Constitutional Party. My belief is Calvinism. Probably that short description of myself helps you to understand where I came from and my ground stands.
Closing and I always have to mention something for our Lord. Our reign is under Lord’s sovereign, amen.
Shelley said,
July 14, 2008 @ 7:27 am
Don,
I completely agree. As someone who attended the DBC conference and came away inspired with lots of ideas, I was heartsick and sick to the stomach to see all the infighting at such great cost. I’m still heartbroken. I echo ALL Drolz’s sentiments.
In the past, I would have commented here and there, while mindful of my choices in words and my own motives. But in the controversy surrounding the DBC, I had no stomach for the infighting because Deaf babies lose out when we practice horizontal violence.
Deafwomynpride’s face and comments at Amy Cohen-Efron’s really tore me apart because she expressed exactly how I feel.
I hope your message gets through to ALL, and contributes to the unity we so badly need.
Thank you for speaking out.
Sincerely,
Shel
Deafproverbs said,
July 14, 2008 @ 7:39 am
AGB is laughing.. rolling on the floor with thounds giggles!! What a shame for us the Deaf community. Truth always WIN ~ It’s truly too bad to see the ugly side of DBC. It’s heart-breaking.
DrDonG said,
July 14, 2008 @ 7:45 am
Truth always wins? What truth? The truth of lies? And what about the ugly side of Deaf people who are willing to believe those lies without thinking for themselves about what is really being presented to them?
native asl/ci parent and child said,
July 14, 2008 @ 7:48 am
Well, said! The picture is painful to see. Glad we have not resorted to machetes.
Have emunah (Hebrew word for faith) in our community. We shall previal by acceptance of diversity and respect.
DBC has all my support as long as it is not run by militant ideologies and covert operations or the machete war would continue. DBC will also win my affection if Deaf people stop looking at my son with disdain or pity for having a cochlear implant. Sheltering my child is what other hearing parents are doing to their CI children.
The militancy has to STOP! Or we all will be reduced to confetti.
Ive just got to share this vlog with some of my AGB parents! Thanks, Don for another great vlog.
Shalom!
EricJindra said,
July 14, 2008 @ 8:07 am
Truth always win.
I have to agree with on this one.
If you knew that truth will destructive anything but it is always best to inform and share everyone with truth for what you know about anything rather than to withheld it. Therefore, we can come assembles together and to figure out what we can do about it or resolve it anything with best precision information that we can obtains to it. For a good example with our government right now in U.S. we will never trust our government ever again since after WWII due to government for withheld-ing whole truth information with us. Do we want that to happen with our deaf community? No way, and we want to work together with absolute truth and precision information available to us.
Do you want to go after all information which it leads to totally unrealistic information or do you rather to go with truth information which it will lead to where you want to find?
Same with if you got pulled over and it is always best to tell truth to officer so that you will either be pardoned or charged with minimum fine and or charges. If you don’t releases truth information and I am sure you will get excess charges for what it was supposed to be.
Simple, be truthful and humble before society.
Praise to Lord for his beautiful sovereign!
Deafproverbs said,
July 14, 2008 @ 8:26 am
Truth is who the DBC leaders are.. they are self-centered people and only want to see their world only. I’m parent of a Deaf culturally chiild with CI. At first, I was so excited about DBC. It’s best movement I ever seen in many years in the deaf community. Then, I saw a leader being against CI. It has bursted my excitement.. I kept on hoping that the DBC itself will evolve into higher level of couresty toward the parent’s options yet at same time presenting the Bilingual on their menu. With the coursety, respect and supportive Deaf people toward the parents, it CAN make a HUGE HUGE difference in our future deaf children.
Nope, it didnt happen due to those few leaders who are obviously biased and against CI. That’s why I wrote “Truth always win”. They lied at first place, saying that they are ONLY for the bilingualism for deaf children. Deep inside, they wanted to reject the CI option in deaf children.
By the way, I’m bilingual without CI.
DrDonG said,
July 14, 2008 @ 8:39 am
DeafProverbs –
Individual leaders of DBC are against C.I., granted. But DBC never said it was against C.I. The only anti-C.I. thing that I saw (in the vlogs) was when Barb DiGi said she saw a girl with a C.I. trying to sign to her father, and her father refused to sign with her. That was entirely within the goals of DBC, as they stated it to be. DBC said, “we want Deaf babies to have access to ASL too!” And that is the theme they were reinforcing. Nothing about C.I. itself. Just the oralist/anti-ASL philosophy behind C.I. and AVT.
Candy said,
July 14, 2008 @ 8:48 am
DonG, you are as much guilty of perpetuating this horizontal “violence” as much as the next person.
Everyone needs to take responsibility for their actions. Ergo, all Ella and them have to do is come out and take responsibility in order for people to move on.
You can’t go around looking for scapegoats or strawmen and trying to justify things. It’s a COP OUT.
And, please, do not compare us with blacks. They have a different history than we do and even then, their excuse for why they do what they do is also a COP OUT!
We, the deaf people, are not as stupid as you think. How you come across on your vlog is pretty insulting to our intelligence. And, while I may not speak for everyone, I know I speak for many.
EricJindra said,
July 14, 2008 @ 8:56 am
We have to analyze those DBC leaders’ hearts to reveal what side they are advocating for CI and/or Bi-Bi. If they are promoting for Bi-Bi but not for CI. They need to fix on that public image because more and more of deaf children are receiving CIs (included myself when I was 4).
For those hearing parents and they won’t understand Bi-Bi without DBC’s small advocating on CI to win their mind and heart to advocate for Bi-Bi and CI at same time. We cannot and will never wipe CI out from this Earth. We must swallow that CI are part of deaf community, period. We have to play strategic game with people’s mind and heart to win their advocate and to inform others for our messages.
It is clearly that DBC isn’t showing any advocate for CI and that might cause big disputes in our blogs/vlogs due to that we rejects the idea of CI in deaf community. We need to get that straighten up.
Jesus, he found us to be his children.
Karen Mayes said,
July 14, 2008 @ 9:22 am
I disagree with you on many issues you have brought up, but it does not mean that I am “colonized”, “bully”, etc. You send out the conflicting messages.
I have two deaf children (one is an aural learner, immediately home with English, a mainstreamed student, and another a visual learner, a native ASL user, going to a deaf school) so I know that ASL is not for every deaf baby, despite what people claim. There are MANY things that you don’t know.
Hmmm… I admit to drawing a line at Deafhood. I see it as more of a personal private journey for some of us and I do notice that some of people, like you Dr.Don, take it to a more group level (albeit a cult, a sorority/fraternity, etc., you name it) for encouraging a mindset. That I disagree with it. Now we have to agree to disagree at this point and leave it at that (by the way I am older than you.)
As for DBC, I honestly don’t know where Deafhood starts or ends when it comes to DBC, but I know that each of us have a different idea, hope, opinon when it comes to DBC and DH. Right or wrong? NEITHER. We keep forgetting the reason why DBC was founded…but we need to acknowledge that DBC NEEDS to change in order to survive… starting concentrating on meeting hearing parents, audiologists, etc., as I have said on a few blogs. Deafhood can ALWAYS wait… when/if hearing parents are ready to learn more about deaf community, they could learn a little bit about deafhood.
For now, I see the need to keep deafhood and DBC separate to keep the messages separate and clear.
AND… that is my opinion.
DrDonG said,
July 14, 2008 @ 9:26 am
Candy,
You are obviously not “getting it”. I have tried to be civil to you and everyone else who comments, whether I agreed with you or not, and I have disagreed with you more than agreed. But that is discussion and debate, and as Joseph Santini pointed out, that is fine, and that is part of the process. But when the debate becomes uncivil, and it did with Dan, and a few others who I can’t think of right now, and you have become borderline uncivil, so as far as I’m concerned, you are contributing more to the horizontal violence. And it goes for anyone pro-ASL/Deafhood who engages in uncivil discourse as well.
native asl/ci parent and child said,
July 14, 2008 @ 9:54 am
Don ,
Let’s suppose . . .
I am standing in a hallway with my CI child.
You come out of a classroom and walks down the hallway.
I tap my child’s shoulder and sign to him, “This man does not support cochlear implants.”
My Deaf child looks up at me with a puzzled look.
“Yes, he told the world that he is against cochlear implants. ” I say.
He responds, “Oh, I would not feel comfortable around him. ”
Now who is practicing horizontal violence?
I do not mean any offense. I only want you to realize the ramifications of your strong views on the current and future generation of d/Deaf children with cochlear implants.
I am hurt. I thnk I am going to continue to keep my brilliant, innocent and polite child away from the Deaf community where Deafhood is promoted.
Thank you for listening.
Just a mother who loves her son and wants the BEST for him regardless of what the culturally Deaf thinks.
native asl/ci parent and child said,
July 14, 2008 @ 10:00 am
Eric Jindra,
Thank you for revealing that you hava CI. Don, that is another example of a frustrated Deaf CI youth. He is unhappy with the DBC message.
The AIM messages is revelatory. Did you read what some of them talk about drilling holes in the child?
How would Eric Jindra feel?
How would my son feel?
How would the rest of the happy CI children and young adults feel?
That ’s an act of subtle violence among their own kind.
KEEP your disdain for CI OUT of advocating for BILINGUAL EDUCATION!
I will continue to figttooth and nail for the CI community, signing or not. They are MY own people who needs a strong voice like mine.
Amen!
Deafproverbs said,
July 14, 2008 @ 10:17 am
Barb had posted several vlogs/blogs being against CI.. including the actual surgery of CI. She even had her children talking against CI. She truy blew my mind - I dont care if she is against CI .. then she used her children in her vlogs. This truly turned me off. DBC is who leaders are. Leaders are DBC.
As I have watched Ann Marie, Amy, Dr Hocokan and others’ Vlogs and read the blogs from a numerous bloggers - They confirmed my thinking & feelings.
observer said,
July 14, 2008 @ 11:48 am
Candy, if you need evidence of how you are contributing to the incivility, one recent example is how you called people assholes in Ben Vess’ blog calling Ella a coward (which is also an example of horizontal violence. He could have expressed the same idea differently)
DrDonG said,
July 14, 2008 @ 11:56 am
Karen,
Will you PLEASE go back to my “Deafhood is a cult” post and look at my last two comments, and you will see that my comment about Ben being a “kid” has NOTHING to do with his age and EVERYTHING to do with how he was behaving. A few other people were behaving VERY immaturely as well, and Dan brought it to the nadir of immaturity. So stop harping on my supposed “ageism”.
However, you and I have disagreed, no question. But your comments were always presented in a mature manner. I am not against ANYBODY discussing their viewpoint, as long as they can present themselves in a mature, rational manner. Discussion and debate is part of the blogosphere, and it is part of the process of Deafhood, as Joseph Santini said in his guest vlog on Ben’s site.
DrDonG said,
July 14, 2008 @ 12:13 pm
NACIPAC,
I’ve said it before, and I’m saying it again. Please LISTEN (literally and figuratively). I am opposed to CI for what it represents — the audist imposition of their worldview on the Deaf community. As a Deaf person from a Deaf family, I think you can understand about that perception. I am not opposed to YOU, or your son as Deaf people, even with your implants. I suspect if we could sit down and talk together, we would be fine with each other.
Part of the problem, I think, is that in the beginning, and maybe even now, some people reacted to CI users and expressed their opposition to what the CI represents as antagonism toward the CI person themselves. This is unfortunate, and I think much of your feelings about the Deaf community comes from those reactions.
By all means, stand up for what you believe about the CI for yourself and your community. As long as we are engaging in civil discourse, maybe we all will be able to work out whether we can come to a mutual agreement on what role, if any, the CI has within the Deaf community.
Karen Mayes said,
July 14, 2008 @ 12:28 pm
I just looked at the comments you requested. Okay, I get you.
It is just that I am concerned for the future deaf generations… more and more babies receive CIs and now my son has been expressing an interest in getting CIs (I say no, not as long as his hearing aids benefit him, but I know it is a matter of time before his progressive hearing loss gets worse before we’d seriously discuss it.) I was AGAINST the idea of CI until I went to the workshop in Rochester, NY, several years ago where I listened to the panelists and my perspective changed since then. Like everyone else, I am still waiting for the official statistics on CIs (guess it won’t happen for a decade or so…)
The way I see it… CIs are here to say. Genetic engineering… stem cells… what would be next for us? We can always choose to fight or to accept the inevitable future for the generational deaf families, like mine? (my kids are 5th generation, but has nothing to do with this discussion.) There is a rapidly growing statistics of late deafened adults (baby boomers.)
There are many factors, ifs, shoulds, shouldnots, etc. We could debate forever, but we have to face the facts, that it is happening before our eyes… good or bad. Yesterday I just learned that the stats of deaf students with special needs at Indiana School for the Deaf jumped to 67% from 52%… There is a great need for deaf teachers with certification in special education (not deaf education… we have plenty of certification in deaf education), etc.
*shrug* So I look at my kids and I wonder what the future would hold for them. Deafhood… sigh. My children have their own journeys as deaf people and I only hope that they’d turn out just fine.
Dan said,
July 14, 2008 @ 12:56 pm
Deafhood, Deaf cults including YOU started dividing the Deaf community. They rejected DIVERSITY and MAJORITY.
That is a main reason.
Deafproverbs said,
July 14, 2008 @ 1:31 pm
native asl/ci parent and ci child
You said it beautifully! I am stuggling to keep hope for our future children who will grow and become our leaders. My hope for them is to embrace the diveristy in the deaf community (CI, non CI, D/deaf, and etc..) without the today’s attitude/influences.
Today, there are nearly 80% deaf kids in public/mainstream schools. Those kids.. who will speak for them? Who will make their parents feeling welcomed and comfortable in the deaf community?? NOT those leaders in DBC!!
I am leaving this - letting it go - and go enjoy my beautiful children before they are all grown up and face those ugly and disturbing facts among those type of people.
DrDonG said,
July 14, 2008 @ 2:12 pm
“Dan” (if that’s even your real name — I noticed the email address you gave me doesn’t seem to work),
YOU are a big hypocrite! You talk about rejecting “diversity”, when YOU made fun of me and my viewpoints, including calling me names like “nerd”! YOU are an instigator of horizontal violence toward the Deaf community. YOU are like a junior member of a wolfpack, jumping in again and again to nip at your prey. It is people like YOU that are causing problems in our Deaf community, not Deafhood. You are part of the reason why I decided to make this post, because YOU are a divisive influence!
Take a good long look in the mirror at YOURSELF before you start pointing fingers at anyone else!
Candy said,
July 14, 2008 @ 2:32 pm
Observer, if you’ve notice, I wasn’t the first to say asshole. It was just for emphasis and dry humor. Read carefully.
And, DonG, everyone is entitled to their own interpretation of what’s said. If you felt I was borderline uncivil, then you must be, too.
Karen Mayes said,
July 14, 2008 @ 2:33 pm
Huh, you accused me of dividing? Or are you talking to other commneter?
DeafRead/Deafhood/etc have both unifying and divisive forces, depending on our perspectives.
Candy said,
July 14, 2008 @ 2:35 pm
As usual everyone throws words out of proportion.
DonG is just upset because everyone wants these DBC core members to start taking responsibility.
So, try to divert things all you want DonG.
That’s the bottom line.
Your goal is for everyone to move on and leave these DBC core members alone. Yet, the goals of many are different, thus all the discourse on the blogs/vlogs. Don’t stop the due process.
DrDonG said,
July 14, 2008 @ 2:44 pm
Karen, I didn’t say anything to you about dividing. I’m not sure where I said it, if I said it, but if I did, it must have been to some other commenter.
native asl/ci parent and child said,
July 14, 2008 @ 4:42 pm
Catching up here after being the chauffeur getting kids to their camps crossing two state lines. Deaf proverbs, thank you for your support and i am delighted to see someone with CI kid/s other than me advocating for true bilingualism without deafhood, anti-ci, anti-agb rhetoric in the Deaf blogosphere.
DonG, hmmmm….. this discourse is a part of our Deafhood process? I think I am somwhat allergic to the word “Deafhood” I like “Deaf identity” better, I guess.
The hijacking and twisting by the ‘hood namely the trio and their loyal followers have ruined any possibility of me opening up to the idea of a Deaf related process.
Do not fret over Candy. She has dry humor. Deaf parents. She’s pretty intelligent and well integrated emotionally possibly based on her positive upbringing as a Deaf/hoh person.
DonG, I am curious about your upbringing. I understand that you were raised oral until you enrolled MSSD at age 13. Are you hard of hearing or are you deaf? Yeah, I am starting to see the need for a process, but I doubt it is or all of us as some of us grew up with Deaf parents and signed ASL in the home. Would you care to do a vlog one day explaining your background for us all to better understand why you are so into Deafhood?
Rambling on . . . but thanks for listening while I process my thoughts.
Elena said,
July 14, 2008 @ 4:48 pm
Candy, I’m appalled at your resistance against Dr.DonG ’s parallel comparison of the Deaf community with the African-American community– really, your words held an obvious tone of racism which was totally appalling to me, as well as clear ignorance that’s probably rooted in a general lack of knowledge about the history of oppressed groups and the ramifications of the oppression towards such groups. DonG was utilizing an accurate comparison of one oppressed group to another, both of which have undergone intensive colonization, with such effects lasting into the present, including horizontal violence (a direct consequence of the disruption and divisiveness caused by colonialism). I suggest you open your mind to realizing the parallels between oppressed, colonized groups in order to better understand what we Deaf activists are fighting for and the our principles behind our battles.
native asl/ci parent and child said,
July 14, 2008 @ 5:04 pm
Yo, DonG. You are becoming popular. Go to: http://candy.blogono.com/2008/07/13/letting-it-goobsessivehood/
Important what? Keep an open mind. Hear ‘em out.
They’re not just a small group. The majority of my Deaf of Deaf friends do not read DR nor DV. They are clueless as to what’s going on, but they do share similiar views as those commenters in Candy’s blog.
There is no one right perspective. Your perspective is just a perspective based on your life journey. I do not agree with your perspective but it is valid because it represents your experience.
I’ll go now.
Joseph Pietro Riolo said,
July 14, 2008 @ 5:59 pm
I have been pondering on several comments made by the person identified as “native asl/ci parent and child”. I think I understand how he or she (I could not determine or remember the gender, my apology to the person) feels on how you express your opposing position toward cochlear implant. He feels free to correct me if I am wrong, slightly or totally.
When you said that you are against cochlear implant, exactly what do you mean by that? (I am fully aware of the distinction between ideas and people who happen to practice the same ideas.) Does it mean that you desire the technology of cochlear implant to be banned and outlawed? Does it mean that you believe in being active against the cochlear implant through whatever means that are available to you (i.e. write a letter to representative to stop insurances from paying the cost of cochlear implant, look for ways to make the cochlear implant look bad by collecting bad experiences with cochlear implant, trying to persuade people to see cochlear implant as an audist thing)? When you said that you are against cochlear implant, does it mean that if you happen to have the power to set the direction of deaf education, you would steer it away from cochlear implant?
Or, when you said that you are against cochlear implant, do you mean that you do not see it as a good thing according to your own personal perspective? Does it mean that you have strong dislike toward cochlear implant? If you intend any of those, I think that changing your words would clarify your position immensely. Instead of saying that you are against cochlear implant, you can say that you don’t like it or don’t want to use it. This will emphasize that the relationship between you and cochlear implant is totally personal and that your feelings toward the cochlear implant are limited to the personal relationship only. When you use the word “against”, the scope of your feelings toward cochlear implant goes beyond your personal relationship and affects the interpersonal relationships.
I would like “native asl/ci parent and child” to teach us how to approach him or her in respect to the sensitive topic on cochlear implant. Will changing words help (i.e. use “dislike” instead of “against”)? Will changing tone help (I realize that it is difficult to convey right tone through written communication and this may mean that high verbosity may be necessary)? What are the other ways to maintain civility during the informal communication? (Extreme formality such as in court or debate is required for obvious reasons – to keep the discourse extremely civil. But, how can civility be possible in the informal situations like this thread of discussion?)
In the interest of full disclosure especially for “native asl/ci parent and child”, I do not like cochlear implant but I keep it to myself. I have my own personal philosophy toward cochlear implant. However, I personally believe that parents have the freedom of choice and this freedom overrides my personal feelings about cochlear implant. The freedom of choice that the adults and older kids enjoy also overrides my personal feelings.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
DrDonG said,
July 14, 2008 @ 7:17 pm
NACIP&C -
Go to my very first vlog at http://www.deafhooddiscourses.com/?p=3. I told some about myself and my upbringing there. Or are you asking for more specifics? I was born Deaf, but with a hearing aid, I could hear well in the “hard of hearing” range (whatever that really means — it’s a very muddled concept that NOBODY can really agree on, even in the scientific research), but I was never really able to use the phone well or participate in spoken conversations with more than one person, so I consider myself Deaf for that reason. But, actually, I am planning to do a vlog really soon on why I am into Deafhood. Thanks for alerting me to Candy’s blog. I’m going to go over there and check it out now.
DrDonG said,
July 14, 2008 @ 7:19 pm
Joseph P.R. –
You actually do have a good point. Word choices can and do blind people to the ideas behind what people are trying to say. I’d be interested in NACIP&C’s response — it could be helpful to work through our perceptual differences.
Mishkazena said,
July 14, 2008 @ 7:34 pm
Curious here. Do you see me asking DBC to become more transparency a form of horizontal violence?
DrDonG said,
July 14, 2008 @ 7:45 pm
Mishka,
No, asking for transparency is not horizontal violence. Like I think Drolz said, if you are questioning their procedures or want to make constructive suggestions for how they could be improved, that is one thing.
But, name-calling, slurs, posting of documents making people seem bad (and not pointing out that one’s self was engaging in similar behavior), and just the general tone of what’s been all over the blogs in the comments definitely is.
Do you see what I’m saying?
native asl/ci parent and child said,
July 14, 2008 @ 9:40 pm
J Pietro-Riolo and DonG, let me answer to your comments and questions later. I’d like to give the ASL/CI Community the opportunity to respond.
DonG, I look forwad to yor vlog about why you are into Deafhood. I genuinely want to understand.
I have a bumper sticker on my car that says C O E X I S T. I must practice what I preach.
Adios!
Candy said,
July 14, 2008 @ 11:08 pm
Elena, I have had lots of discussions with several close friends who happen to be black. Trust me, that view is a cop out. Look at what Obama is saying to black people in the news today. He’s saying take responsibility for your actions. Your view is based on DH which I do not see in the same light as you do.
I’m not racist. Never have been. And never will be. But, I can’t change the way you think about me, which is ok.
Betty said,
July 15, 2008 @ 1:19 am
we are agreed with you, Similar in England, BDA in England not clear structure , still control hearing people are colonism with Deaf People are more criticism to Deaf People.
I have been experience spoiled to Favoritism with other Deaf lead.
thank you very much
Betty
Karen Mayes said,
July 15, 2008 @ 4:31 am
Okay, just making sure… so you were commenting to another commenter.
Deafhood is just a personal journey for each of us and we approach it differently. We agree or disagree, comparing, judging, etc… human nature. I have my own experiences which define how I think, same as your own experiences defining your thinking process. Right or wrong? Nope.
By the way, Candy is very smart… she knows what is she talking about.
Okay, have a good week.
K.L. said,
July 15, 2008 @ 9:32 am
Native asl/ci parent and child asked me to come over here and add my two cents. I understand why some people dislike the cochlear implant, but I cannot agree with them. The potential benefits for the individual child outweigh the impact to the Deaf Community. As a parent, my responsibility is to my child, and ONLY to my child. I need to give her as many tools as I can so she can navigate in this world as easily as possible. If she can have hearing AND sign, then that benefits her.
It does me no good to debate this with people. If they want to hear my views, fine. If they want to ask questions, fine. If they want to dialog, fine. If they want to tell me why I am wrong, I will leave. I don’t have time for that. I have no interest in arguing. I obviously won’t change my mind, and I have no great interest in trying to change other people’s minds. As far as I’m concerned, it makes no difference if the other person is against implants in general, or against the people who have them. I will shield my child from them. The potential for emotional damage is just too great for her. She will have plenty of time when she grows up to deal with that negativism. Not now.
So if you want to engage me in conversation about the implant, don’t start by telling me how much you dislike it. Even if you don’t reject the person, it will come across that way. A good example would be Aiden Mack. I actually have a great deal of respect and admiration for her and what she has accomplished. However, even though I know she does not dislike people with implants, I will not allow my child around her for fear that her beliefs will leak out and confuse my child. I simply choose not to socialize with people who dislike my choices and how I raise my child. They have a complete right to their beliefs, but I don’t need to be subjected to them.
ElephantInTheRoom said,
July 15, 2008 @ 1:44 pm
Pardon my Christian perspective — I love the way you ended this message.. I have just one thing to add:
AG Bell is laughing at us, yes, but he is burning in hell at the same time. Maybe we can feel comforted that he gets a bit of “relaxation” from constant torment and flames, by laughing at the Deaf Community.
Poor AGB — Roasting, Toasting, Broiling, Frying, Barbecue… (but I don’t want to eat that garbage!)
Joseph Pietro Riolo said,
July 16, 2008 @ 3:21 pm
This comment is especially for the person identified by “native asl/ci parent and child”.
I read some of the comments over at http://aslci.blogspot.com/ in response to your comment that quoted a portion of my post. I want to let you know that I do acknowledge and respect their views and thoughts. While I wish to continue the dialogue, I don’t think that anything more from me will be beneficial for you and the people who shared their thoughts. Please don’t misinterpret my silence as rejection of dialogue. I am still open to dialogue but perhaps, this is not a good time for it. (”A time to be silent, a time to discuss.”) Maybe, in the future, we can have dialogue. Maybe not.
Meanwhile, live and let live.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.