The DeafRead forest got burned, but….
It’s been a long, rough few weeks for all of us. It’s been like being in the middle of a forest fire. I’m glad to see things are calming down a bit now. Although the DeafRead forest got burned, there is some good news about forest fires. (And in advance of any accusations of hypocrisy, I stand by my previous blogs on Barry Sewell. I am not speaking to him in this one. But to all the rest of you, I am).
The Rogue said,
July 16, 2008 @ 4:34 pm
Yes exactly. We need simply respect each other! Once Rome fell into disrepair then Rome still revived over 2000 years.
Jean Boutcher said,
July 16, 2008 @ 4:59 pm
Don,
That is exactlly how I have been feeling since June 27th! No exaggeration. Not only have I seen accusations but I also have seen
incessant harassment.
(Sighing)
John said,
July 16, 2008 @ 5:06 pm
Wow.. very good argument… Excellent this one… I believe some people , who start to wake up and think harder…. Hope to get a new blossom to get a better fertility in Deaf community very soon…. High Five……
Mishkazena said,
July 16, 2008 @ 5:28 pm
What a beautiful analogy.
I’m stunned by what happened and the intensity of the furor and anger within the Deaf Community.
Hopefully we can have healthy and open discourses, resolving all the hurts and anger. This way we can start understanding each other more and start healing. This way we can achieve a better D/deaf Unity
vizzilli said,
July 16, 2008 @ 5:50 pm
It makes sense if there really is a lot of harm or wrecked relations among many people. Wow!!!
Interesting illustration you used almost from the James 3:5-10 which explains how through insults or boastfulness, people can hurt many others.
“So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and {yet} it boasts of great things. See how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire!… And the tongue is a fire, the {very} world of iniquity…(cut)
For every species of beasts and birds, of reptiles and creatures of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by the human race. But no one can tame the tongue; {it is} a restless evil {and} full of deadly poison. With it we bless {our} Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God; from the same mouth come {both} blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be this way.” NASB
The Deaf community is not exactly the same as the example above but there are some similarities… It is not our tongue but our language, or our sign/words that is similiar. And among a few people criticisms or disputations without restrain or respect, had burned the forest, our Deaf community. It affected many, many people and even could ruin the respect we want to get from oppressors of the Deaf. We are positive and united, then we are negative and say damaging things. God who created all of us and everything including the forests, knows our ways and does not want us to be that way!
Thanks for sharing some interesting words!
DT said,
July 16, 2008 @ 6:11 pm
Nice analogy and I agree AS LONG AS certain but painful truths for some are remembered and action taken to make modifications. Again, I agree that this was one helluva firestorm but don’t let it or the smoke take away/wash away CERTAIN discoveries.
DT
dog food said,
July 16, 2008 @ 11:43 pm
umm, im not really surprised. deafread is a place where each issue becomes the next new issue; like a domino that continues to fall.
I, myself, find more amusement in the furor of this crazed environment. I don’t always like what i read, and i dont always hate what i read. I can’t help but feel addicted to reading the drama and want to add my 2 cents, regardless of how seriously or unseriously you want to take it.
Looking back when I was young; the world was a quiet country where everyone spoke a different language. I had more fun with my dogs, my lovely dogs and enjoyed their company under the table rather than on the chair and watch a converstation that i can never completely be part of.
this drama exists because we do not have it in any other part of life in which i’s vented. Its a silly thing to say that deaf people have a “thick skin” when its really all about picking battles worth fighting.
Dogs smile every day, play, fart, and live a good life. Can we play fetch?
MM said,
July 17, 2008 @ 2:27 am
I’m with MZ, let’s have a ‘bury the hatchet’ day at deaf.read and move on ! On that day we will all blog a peace message…
Joseph Pietro Riolo said,
July 17, 2008 @ 3:44 am
You have a nice analogy but the analogy does not apply to the eastern side of the U.S. In the eastern side, there is no problem with renewing life. It is the water (humidity) that allows the dead matters under the trees to decay into very nutritious compounds that become fertile for the next cycle of life of plants.
The implication of your analogy is that we need periodic fire to rejuvenate the Deaf culture. Does this mean that you want to see other troublemaker come and start fire in the culture six months or a year from now? Does this mean that it is a good thing to have periodic fire in the culture?
I predict that you are going to reprimand me for taking your analogy too far. I will concede that.
However, the hard question is: Are we prepared for the next fire? The answer is, I am sorry to be pessimistic, very likely no. The reason is the lack of education (or training) on how to maintain civil discourse in spite of strong disagreements and perhaps also how to remain friends in spite of strong disagreements. (An idea that just came to my mind: Perhaps, you can provide education through your open-captioned vlogs.) The Deaf culture, unfortunately, does not look kindly on dissenters. How can we change the culture norm where the dissenters can be respected?
I think that you can sense that I do not agree completely with your analogy but please do know that I am open to your point of view.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
Peace said,
July 17, 2008 @ 4:48 am
It’s not just about DBC. It’s just another attempt in community building but the Deaf community must look underneath and there, it will learn that there are particular elite groups (i.e., kappa gamma and kappa zeta) that have caused so much destruction in the Deaf community.
Throughout history, Deaf people have gathered together to form organizations/groups to fight against bias and discrimination in society. Tell me, did we get what we wanted?
ASL is still not recognized as a language, the Deaf community does not have its members holding prestigious jobs, and almost, if not all, hearing parents want their children to become “hearing” through cochlear implantation.
I am not saying that the elite groups must take FULL responsibility for what happened in the past but rather, we need to stop delegating leadership roles to those people because they do not understand what leadership really means. They were raised and taught to believe they are the chosen few of the Deaf community, and that they are better than other Deaf people. This brainwashing mentality is, with no question, destructive and heartbreaking.
Please keep in mind that nothing ever just happens. There is such a thing as a law of cause and effect that applies to everything and everybody in the Deaf community.
Remember, UNITY AND TRUST-BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS = PROGRESS.
Give the power back to the people, not the chosen few!
Shelley said,
July 17, 2008 @ 5:50 am
Excellent posting, Don G.
I would like to add that in order for us to move forward, forgiveness need to occur, so that means letting go of anger.
I will agree that the whole thing has been emotionally draining, and distracting.
This is where the analogy of the phoenix comes in. Quite apropros, don’t you agree?
Shel
Richard Roehm said,
July 17, 2008 @ 7:43 am
You need to raze the trunks off and plant bean sprouts in it’s place.
DrDonG said,
July 17, 2008 @ 8:38 am
Joseph P.R. –
Yes, you did carry the analogy a bit too far. And no, I was not suggesting we need fires every year or two . Even that research I was talking about wasn’t saying that — I think it was saying something like on a 20 or 30 or 50-year cycle. But even that’s not the point I was trying to make. Not sure I want Shelley’s analogy of the phoenix — that damn bird burns up WAY too often!
Peace –
Keeping talking about KG & PKZ — that is SO Gallaudet! I felt the same way while I was in Gally and for a few years after, but I have found that out in the real world, we really don’t have those same loyalties — I am now friends with many former KG and PKZ members (as well as ASP, DE, XOP [are they still in operation?], etc. I don’t even think of them as KG or PKZ anymore, except once in a while, and that is only in joke. I have not gotten any sense that they view the world in those separatist terms either. The only thing I have seen as a “criteria” is that you use ASL and share a Deaf-centered perspective of the world.
You know, I think the point of DBC WAS to try to give power back to the people. To have the PEOPLE show that ASL and access to sign language for Deaf children is important to THEM. It was started as a grassroots movement, and it was the grassroots that showed their enthusiastic support. So, the whole effort to discredit the DBC seems counter to the idea of empowering the people.
Shelley said,
July 17, 2008 @ 10:41 am
LOL, Don G…
Good point about the too frequent burning of that “damn bird”. Unfortunately, that “damn bird” keeps burning up every time a new hot issue arrives on the scene.
Shel
Jenny said,
July 17, 2008 @ 11:30 am
DrDonG, XOP became Delta Phi Epsilon (DPhiE) – not sure if they’re still active.
And I agree, this is not a KG/PKZ thing. DBC in my state was so diverse. The committee is mostly composed of people who did not attend Gallaudet, and the leaders worked closely with the state committee.
And I’m friends with many former KG and PKZ members too – things change out of college.
Mishkazena said,
July 17, 2008 @ 11:35 am
Don,
How is calling for full transparency discredit DBC? Isn’t honesty the best policy?
Raphael J. St. Johns said,
July 17, 2008 @ 12:44 pm
I agree, but I find it ironic that some of you who were part of this “fire” e.g Mishkazena, are now jumping on the bandwagon and calling for peace.
If you guys really wanted peace , then why did people like Mishkazena
give a platform to the one main instigator of this fire – Dr. H.?
You guys had good,valid points about the DBC. Unfortunely, (as it is with human nature) it got lost when “Dr. H.” went on a flamming war for his personal vendetta.
If you guys- Mishkazena, Amy C. etc. really wanted to discuess the issues surrounding the DBC- you should have never allowed “Dr.H” to use your blogs as a launching platform for his name-calling, baiting, destructive methods.
DrDonG said,
July 17, 2008 @ 1:01 pm
Mishka,
I think there are two things happening. You want full transparency. Ok, that’s reasonable.
But to suggest they aren’t or weren’t being honest by not being fully transparent? I don’t think that’s fair to the DBC Core. I know Ella, DE on a personal level — not close, but well enough that I can get a good sense of who they are and I believe they are honest people. John LOOKS like an honest man, but maybe that’s just his “grandpa” thing going. Barb DiGi strikes me as a passionate advocate for ASL and language rights for Deaf people. I have a hard time believing that these people would sabotage the central DBC mission by doing anything that wasn’t in the best interests of their cause.
Raphael J. St. Johns said,
July 17, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
And only that, Don, but the way they went about it.
Calling us names and ratting on and on… publishing private IM conversations went too far.
Like I said, they had good issues…but it” went down the tubes” so to speak, when “Dr. H” began to bait and called us names.
Then he eventually admitted on Misha Zena own blog that he will not quit until the “leaders of DBC apolozied to me”. And he still went on and on.
So much for discourse!
Mishkazena said,
July 17, 2008 @ 4:06 pm
Don,
I completely understand. However, the former core members and I were involved intensively, some from the very beginning and this theme was the sole reason why all of us are out. We who left last fall went ahead and set up a neutral clearinghouse site on Bilingualism. It’s doing pretty well.
I’ve discussed this with the DBC leaders and they are still not comfortable being forthright with the public. I do not know what their motives, but I cannot continue with this lack of transparency as Deaf Community needs to know the full truth. I am sorry they have chosen this path, as I rather not do it.
From the beginning, I’ve always acknowledged how successful DBC is and how impressive I am with thiir amazing feat of attracting 700 plus participants, mostly Deaf, to a conference where they left feeling very inspired and empowered. I truly hope DBC will continue to grow and evolve.
I know it’s been a difficult period for the Deaf Community, thrown into confusion and uncertainity. All I can say is that the clues are out there for those who are willing to see. I have no problem with DBC combing bilingualism and deafhood… just as long as they are open about it.
Mishkazena said,
July 17, 2008 @ 7:41 pm
Raphael, at the beginning, I didn’t realize he may have other agenda. When I found out that letters were sent to CA and NY Dept of Education, I was aghast.. I didn’t know anyone would go that far and hurt people’s livelihood. I don’t care if people are against C.I. and oralism, as long as they don’t reject people. But having their jobs jeopardized due to their personal beliefs, I feel they are entitled to their opinions and that doesn’t interfere with their jobs.
That had left me feeling very disturbed.
DrDonG said,
July 17, 2008 @ 7:52 pm
Mishka,
I’m glad you’re starting to see where I and others are coming from. Barry’s ethics are extremely questionable, for all he talks big about “coming together into the circle”, and I really suspect he had ulterior motives all along for destroying DBC. Being a whistleblower might be one thing, but to personally go after people and their jobs and character are a whole other thing, in my book. He is a shady character. Anything he says now, I won’t even take with even a grain of salt. For all I know, that grain might be poisoned with his lies and distortions too.
Raphael J. St. Johns said,
July 18, 2008 @ 5:49 am
Mishka- I really find it hard to believe your statement.
I told you in private e-mails that “Dr. H” was ruining your creditability-yet you continue to allowed him to posts many nasty, off-the -wall comments.
I told you to go back and re-read the entire conversation.
“The Blues” told ( I take that back, he/she pleaded with) you basically the same things.
You were either “blinded” or had the same agenda as “Dr. H” had.
Either way, your creditability has sunk…thanks to your continuing to, by your own silence, allowing “Dr. H” to post more attacking, off- the wall comments.
And because of your allowing him to posts, you are (in my mind) complicit in the violations of the most scared trusts in all of Deaf Culture, e.g. publicizing PRIVATE IM Messages.
As I have said before…you and the other bloggers ought to be ashamed.
DE said,
July 18, 2008 @ 8:03 am
DrDonG,
Thank you for all you are doing for the community. People like you are the beacons of hope for our community’s future- and I ain’t no flatterer, thanks!
Since I’ve quit DeafRead (I quit last week, and boy, I’m so at peace!), I am going directly to my favorite vloggers/bloggers’ site- and apparently only Joey Baer has a subscription list. His is probably the only site I don’t have to return repeatedly in order to see if there are new entries. Pretty please do the same for your site!
Everybody in this community must take responsibility for her/his actions, including some of the commenters here.
Take care,
DE
DrDonG said,
July 18, 2008 @ 9:29 am
DE,
I’d like to put in the subscription option, but I don’t know how. Joey told me he had a friend help him with tweaks like that. I do believe a good option for you may be to click on the “subscribe to RSS Feed”, or create one for my site. You take care of yourself, and don’t let all the s**t get you down!
–DonG.
Aidan Mack said,
July 18, 2008 @ 10:09 am
DE: Please do not misunderstand my intention. It stings me when I hear that you quit DeafRead. You as a Deafhood presenter, I listened your workshop of Deafhood. It gave me a motivation to make a difference in the Deaf community. Now I see you decided to quit Deafread and failed to recognize it’s everyone’s Deafhood journey even though it was a painful journey. Now I challenge you as a Deafhood presenter, how can you expect people listen what you say, when you don’t even do what you say? By being a Deafhood mentor, you can teach and coach them through their trials and tribulations and Sometimes just being there to help them get back up after they have fallen is all you have to do. How can I set example of Deafhood to the Deaf community if it is not being followed through?
“Great leaders are almost always great simplifiers, who can cut through argument, debate and doubt, to offer a solution everybody can understand.” By Collin Powell
“Only when one accepts the truth of this suffering will one begin to investigate the cause of suffering, the cessation of its cause and practice the path leading to its cessation.”
Mishkazena said,
July 18, 2008 @ 11:00 am
Raphael,
You know I try not to moderate my blog… unless the flame war between the commenters have gone out of control.
In my opinion, people have the right to express their opinions whether we agree with them or not. This isn’t the first time people have posted something not only I but others sharply disagreed, but I don’t block their comments, even if some do bash me horribly. For sure anyone can see that I don’t agree with those who bash me harshly.. so your statement that I am implicit or agree with Dr H’s motivations are not valid. That’s always my pattern and will continue. I don’t try to control other people’s comments.
I’ve repeatedly stated my position, both in the posts, in my comment sections, and at the comment sections of other blogs/vlogs. That’s very clear to anyone.
I believe that everybody are entitled to their beliefs and opinions whether I or others agree with them, however, I don’t agree to anyone being fired. Cochlear implants are highly controversial in the Deaf Community, which makes a lot of sense… as it contradicts with the core value of deafness treasured in the Deaf Community. I am astounded that anyone would be fired for this.. as long as they don’t express this belief at work place and that they do a professional job working with kids using C.I.s. I would expect that the employers understand the rights of employees to state their personal beliefs outside their work hours. If this isn’t being permitted, then I would hope that the employees discuss this with their employees.
For example, I worked for the federal government and I criticized the president outside of my job. I wouldn’t be disciplined for expressing my thoughts. So why should it be different for employees of deaf schools? Something is very wrong with this picture. The employers are given too much power which contradicts with the individuals’ rights of expression.
Mishkazena said,
July 18, 2008 @ 11:05 am
By the way, the AIM is a formal business meeting of an group sponsored by a not for profit organization CAD. It’s not a private chat between friends. That’s a very big difference.
Incidentally I recollected that the private e mails from Fernandes and two Deaf Accountants were published in my blog, as well, as other blogs and one in the newspaper. I don’t recall any outcry over them.
I’m seeing a double-standards here. We will have to disagree on few points. I call for transparency and it’s obvious many pepole are comfortable with the lack of transparency. Many people have sent me e mails to thank me for asking for clarifications.
Mishkazena said,
July 18, 2008 @ 11:49 am
Correction: Dr Fernandes’s threatening e mail to Gallaudet BoT.
When we protested at Gallaudet, did that mean we wanted to destroy Gallaudet? No. We want full transparency and due process for Gallaudet. We wanted the best for our beloved institution.
Because I asked for clarification doesn’t mean I want to destroy DBC. This is America where concerned citizens have the right to ask for transparency and clarifications. This is not a Communist country where we are not permitted to ask for clarifications, while retaining our support for the organization.
I am starting to feel this Deaf America practices severe oppression and crucifies anyone who wants to ask for clarification. How can we move forward as empowered Deaf Citizens? We were too oppressed to speak openly at Gallaudet for many years. Look what happened? Gallaudet kept getting worse and worse, eventually leading to a second revolt.
Most universities welcome the democratic system where concerned stakeholders feel free to conduct constructive dialogues. It’s the same with organizations in the hearing America.
Is Deaf America being held to a different standards, where democracy doesn’t exist and that we must follow blindly, like sheep, regardless of our concerns?
Shame on you all who want to oppress deaf people’s rights to ask questions and fail to recognize that open discourses are healthy to a democratic society, hearing and deaf.
anonymouse said,
July 18, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
MishkaZena,
I believe you have a good heart and good intentions. But you seem to have difficulty hearing what people are trying to tell you.
You keep reiterating the same points over and over, when these points have been addressed. What many people have a problem with is how those concerns were raised. At least one ex-core member was very destructive in how he aired those concerns. You, while you have remained very civil and offered a more balanced view, have allowed others to perform verbal violence on others on your blogsite.
It’s not about oppression of dissent. It is about objecting to toxic individuals and their destructive behavior…. and those who enable such behavior.
Please attempt to understand this. Thank you.
Trying Hard to Understand said,
July 18, 2008 @ 6:13 pm
Hi Mishka Zena,
This is the first time I’ve posted in response to what you have been saying about DBC
leadership lacking transparency with regard to deafhood, though I have been trying to
think of how to explain for a long time, now.
I think that one difficulty with trying to be transparent about deafhood is trying to
explain clearly what it means. Paddy Ladd’s book weighs in at 452 pages, and all
the workshops, and even the longer classes can’t fully explain some of the insights
that start to come up as you “try on” the deafhood perspective to see what fits you.
Some of the things I’ve found while reading this book and others it cites are that there’s
a whole lot of unexpected similarity to the situation of deaf groups and that of “minority”
cultures.
Many cultures are at odds with a surrounding, more dominant culture (Native Americans,
the French in Canada, Basque speakers in Spain, Spanish speakers in the U.S., etc.).
In the world’s 200+ countries there are maybe 6000 different languages. Many multilingual
people are at home in one language, but must deal with schools and jobs that require
fluency another “better” language to “get ahead”.
There are actually more multlingual/multicultural people in the world than monolingual/
monocultural people, but the “monos” tend to be the ones with the privileges and power!
This sets up a “cognitive dissonance” in multilingual/multicultural people that shows up as:
* constantly having to choose between rebelling against or acquiescing to the views of the
larger society, because their own “home” views are dismissed outright.
* being punished for using their home language at school.
* being told that the dominant language is the only language permitted at work
* horizontal violence, back-stabbing, and the necessary “hypocrisy” of failing to shun
publicly while distrusting privately.
…and MANY more such repetitively negative, even traumatizing experiences.
Dr. Ladd’s book groups various definitions of culture, then establishes deaf culture as a
valid culture among others by each of these definitional groupings.
This allows those exploring the situation of deaf people to consider the use of tools
successfully used by other cultures’ advocates to CHANGE some of the long-standing
patterns of privliege and abuse that come from the disparity of status between
individuals of these “subaltern” (non-dominant) cultures.
In my opinion, the rapid rise of the DBC is due, at least in part, to this reframing of our
past experience. To that degree, it is fair to say that the DBC is informed by the deafhood
perspective.
However, the complexity of actually connecting us to these other, “subaltern” cultures
makes it so very difficult to be clear (and therefore transparent) when trying to explain just
why it might be a most useful reframing to us as advocates for deaf babies’ language
rights.
Deafhood is NOT a cult. It is NOT purely academic, though there is certainly an academic
component to understanding it more fully. In my opinion, it is a useful explanation of
a lot of the things that have held us back in the past, and points out possible avenues of
change that we might be able to use in the future.
Thank you for putting up with the length yet incompleteness of my post.
DrDonG said,
July 18, 2008 @ 6:28 pm
Thank you, T.H.U.–
Once again, you provide very incisive, analytical explanations of the points.
I have to say (knowing who you are), you are definitely proof of why we shouldn’t judge a book by its cover!
–DonG.
Trying Hard to Understand said,
July 18, 2008 @ 7:52 pm
“Paddy Ladd’s book weighs in at 452 pages”…
Sigh… As anybody with a copy of the book will tell you, this should read
“502 pages”… Doesn’t change the discussion, but it’s a dumb mistake to
make anyway when trying to convince you of what I’m saying. The other
stats checked out as I remembered, tho, so I’m not ready for the glue
factory just yet.
Sorry for the confusion…
Karen Mayes said,
July 19, 2008 @ 4:58 am
DE, you and I met at the Deafhood workshop last year. Yes, I did not always disagree but the situation with the DBC that occured on DeafRead (I am not saying anything about the convention… just the situation on DeafRead. Remember I blogged about oppression that I saw occuring ON DeafRead, but somehow a few v/bloggers took it out of content and made it sound like I “oppressed” in real life, which was not true, as most people who know me in real life would say… not true.) Anyway, I was shocked to see the “Breaking New” saying that the letters were sent, etc. That made me say “whoa!” and upset me, because of my friendship with Barb (we hung out a lot in the last two years in NYS before my family moved to Indiana.) I did not know you but I spoke up in defense of you and Barb on Patti Durr’s blog, anyway. So far only one person who pursues in discussing Deafhood… DrDon, of course. Aidan is the second person who discusses it.
Yup, I don’t agree with the way Deafhood is taught to us, BUT, that is my only opinion, nothing more. I am MORE interested in how deaf Europeans define Deafhood, which I am sure is different from how we deaf Americans define it. I still have Paddy’s book which I read last fall after the workshop and it was *grunt* a dry one. I did say I’d read it again, but I have not gotten around to it yet.
Joey and DE, Aidan made a very good point. In one of her vlogs, she challenged us to view DeafRead as a journey, albeit on individual terms… she is correct. She even asked Rachel back (yeah, yeah, I know many of you are not crazy about her, but she is one of us, whether we like it or not. I think she is a cool young lady… remember she is 21 years old, so a kid she is.) Yeah, DeafRead can be uncomfortable because of the comments which the v/bloggers moderate and the reasons why v/bloggers allow comments go through and not go through.
So DE and Joey, you could, once a while, check DeafRead to assess the thermometer of DeafRead’s Deafhood journey. ;o)
Raphael J. St. Johns said,
July 21, 2008 @ 6:04 am
“Shame on you all who want to oppress deaf people’s rights to ask questions and fail to recognize that open discourses are healthy to a democratic society, hearing and deaf”
Shame on you, Elizabeth…because you have not said what is needed…and you know it is NOT the right thing to do….. trying to diverse attention from the main topic (by accusing us of promoting the oppression of Deaf rights) .
The real issue, and ONLY issue for many of us is you allowing this crazy, vindictive, bitter man “Barry” to posts on your blog.
Your refusal to answer and your defending your refusal is a cover up…. from that one issue.
YOU ALLOWED this flame war…you are complicated in it. Simple as that.
Letting YOUR blog to be A posting for name calling and baiting, and publishing of PRIVATE IM conversation…is WRONG.
ANYONE WILL TELL YOU THAT IM’s CONVERSATIONS are PRIVTATE.
The EXPECTATIONS OF PRIVATSITY IS THERE.
You don’t get it.
SHAME ON YOU.
PS- I will not take a back seat to anyone …I paid a heavy personal price during the 1960’s marches for civil rights. My family and I suffered personally, professionally, and financially due our belief in civil rights for ALL Americans.
You want to go start another war on the issue on censorship? Fine-let’s go at it. My scars are ready.
Don’t you dare call me a censorship person.
Raphael J. St. Johns said,
July 21, 2008 @ 8:08 am
To number #30- you are so right.
“anonymouse said,
July 18, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
MishkaZena,
I believe you have a good heart and good intentions. But you seem to have difficulty hearing what people are trying to tell you.
You keep reiterating the same points over and over, when these points have been addressed. What many people have a problem with is how those concerns were raised. At least one ex-core member was very destructive in how he aired those concerns. You, while you have remained very civil and offered a more balanced view, have allowed others to perform verbal violence on others on your blogsite.
It’s not about oppression of dissent. It is about objecting to toxic individuals and their destructive behavior…. and those who enable such behavior.
Please attempt to understand this. Thank you.”
It’s too bad that she (Elizabeth) does not get it.