AGB’s at it again!
A friend just sent me a copy of the AGB Association’s publication, “Volta Voices” (July/Aug. 2008, p. 11 – 12) which has an article about their recent convention in Milwaukee and also mentions the DBC. With some people’s assertions that AGB has changed and they are not against ASL anymore in mind, I examined the article to see what it said about ASL, the Deaf Community, and the DBC. What I found are discussed here in this vlog. See also:
Penny said,
August 1, 2008 @ 1:06 am
Thank you Dr. Dong for sharing this information with us. It is time for people who are against DBC to really shut up. They spent their time to find little mistakes and accused DBC core team for every wrong move they made. They did not invest their energy to voice against AGB but instead to us. They are worst than Mr. Alexander Graham Bell. Really. No joke here. Now after seeing this…I hope they will shut up and support DBC. We all need to help the organization to become stronger otherwise they are killing Deaf children. Not AGB if they conitnue to behave that way.
MM said,
August 1, 2008 @ 3:08 am
If you always look for the negatives, you will always find them.
Valhallian said,
August 1, 2008 @ 5:33 am
Don, interesting vlog, and again I am not against DBC, nor am I promoting AG Bell when I say this, but there are at least two sides to every story and listening to both sides of the story and then trying to decide what to do to bring the two sides together is what actually brings unity. I thank you for the inspiration to create a new posting which should come up later on today and show how both sides of the story can lead to unity.
The Rogue said,
August 1, 2008 @ 5:53 am
Dr. Don G.,
You should read and review the past Volta magazines from 1930′s until now. There were some articles mentioned ASL with discouragement comments. I knew AGB will NEVER play fair with DBC, NAD or any organizations. They simply look down at ASL and SEE community are not “Independent” community. AGB simply wanted to convince any parents that they can help them to raise their deaf child as independent oral and listen (with CI/ Hearing Aids) in real world. It is NOT true since real world always made a stereotypical assumption on deaf community in no matter what.
One miore thing, AGB do support Cued speeches as well. Cued speech is same as sign language. Cued speech used their fingers around their mouth with different sounds. What a hypocrite.
I already knew AGB played with their cards against anybody as “innocent” ways. However, AGB will fall under “Karma” in one day.
Simply teach any deaf babies with ASL until they become toddlers. Any parents can choose Oral, Cued, SEE to communicate as optional with deaf toddlers along ASL so deaf toddlers can catch up the same education as hearing toddlers. One reason if oral failed then ASL always back up as long as deaf toddlers wont fall back with their education.
Charles B. Downing – The Rogue
A Supporter of Deaf Babies' Rights said,
August 1, 2008 @ 7:21 am
Don,
Thank you for sharing this. Most people do not realize the amount of money that AGBell pours into Public Relations so they can keep their imagine sparkling clean. It is good for people who have attended conferences like DBC’s and EDHI’s to see what truly takes place.
AGBell, in their recent article used words such as “against” and “demonstrators” to portray those that do not agree with their approaches. However they use words such as “independence” and “commonalities” to describe themselves. Are you seeing a trend?
This is why we all must have a sharp eye for PR techniques and not fall for AGBell’s ploys to distort the reality of the mission of DBC. Also keep in mind that AGBell, has incredible wealth to support this kind of PR, their beautiful DVD’s and literature that they use to continue their propaganda in regards to the benefits of speech and listening. Deaf organization have never had this kind of money to compete.
However, now we have the DBC made up of individuals, organizations, and states working together for Deaf babies’ rights to language through ASL. This is the first time in history that we have collectively come together to promote the benefits of ASL and at the same time expose those organizations that are excluding ASL from the commonalities of being Deaf.
It is time that ASL gets the recognition it deserves. More than ever in history, it is time to unite and work together.
DrDonG said,
August 1, 2008 @ 8:46 am
Rogue –
Just a point of correction — Cued Speech is NOT the same as sign language. Cued Speech is NOT a language at all. It is just a coding system for the phonemes of spoken language. Yes, it uses the hands as a visual aid (AVT would not allow even Cued Speech, as I understand it, though), but Cued Speech is really only an aid for lipreading. Thus, Cued Speech is an extension of the Oralist philosophy because it is geared toward a reliance on lipreading and speech. So, it is not entirely hypocritical for AGB to support Cuing, since it still fits with their general philosophy (although I imagine that the “pure Oralists” would rather not even see Cuing or any use of the hands at all).
DrDonG said,
August 1, 2008 @ 8:50 am
MM —
I guess that’s true enough. However, the same can go for AGB as well. They turned the DBC (and Deaf people) into a “negative” — “demonstrators”, “against” (as ‘A Supporter’ said above), and subtle negatives (“independence through hearing and talking”) that don’t seem “negative” on the surface of them.
E said,
August 1, 2008 @ 10:03 am
Ah, so what do you make out of Deaf Life’s August issue? David vs. Golitah? AGB, in this issue, is merely using the same words the Deaf Life issue did.
The Rogue said,
August 1, 2008 @ 10:03 am
Dr Don G.,
I have a roommate who is using cued speech, oral and sign language. My roommate said there is lot of different philosophy on Cued Speech. My roommate said you are correct that AGB is accepting Cued Speech for pure oralism but not everyone who succeed oral with cued speech. My roommate said Cued speech also not helping lip reading. I am excellent lip-reading and relying on my digital hearing aids with hearing people. My roommate and some friends used cued speech like “finger reading”. My roommate also said cued speech helped some deaf people to improve their education such as math, reading and writing under any mainstreaming schools.
Dr. R. Orin Cornett – Father of Cued speech and former professor of Gallaudet University .
http://www.cuedspeech.info/cornett.html
Cheers,
Charles B. Downing – The Rogue
MikeS said,
August 1, 2008 @ 10:42 am
Typical what they said. It only leaves us to promote ASL more. There are some who think we need to work with AGB which is incredibly a non-feasible idea since a century has passed that they continue to celebrate “speech” from Deaf children despite including actual linguistic access to an organic language that Veditz claimed that God has provided for them. DBC need to set up conferences and workshops and work with the media far away from AGB centers, IMO. Make AGB as irrelevant as stranded barking seals on an island. I always see AGB as a fraud and thief of the Deaf spirit anyway.
DrDonG said,
August 1, 2008 @ 11:39 am
Well, E — (And thank you for posting in a respectful manner without any reference to my appearance, intelligence or personality)
If you’re so inclined to challenge the text of Deaf Life’s article (I haven’t seen it yet — I’m hoping my subscription request got processed), be my guest.
nacpac said,
August 1, 2008 @ 1:09 pm
Excellent vlog, Don. I wonder how many hearing people did read this v/blog in DeafVillage. this messag of yours need to get acros to the masses!!!!
I believe what AGB meant by being independent is the less dependency on sign langage interpreters. They know Deaf people can be independent when it comes to daily living. The more speech and listening ability one has, the less dependence on sign language interpreters.
Of course there are oral deaf who learned ASL later in life in order to use sign language interpreters in situations where reliance solely on listening and speaking is nearly impossible. Not only that, those oral signing deaf find it so much easier on the eyes when communicating in ASL. Lipreading and listening is a big energy drain on an oral deaf even with cochlear implants.
Don, I’ll assume you have intelligible speech as you grew up as an oral deaf until age 14. Do you still use spoken language when communicating one-on-one with a nonsigner? If so, I would say you are more independent that I am.
My husband, who is Deaf and has intelligible speech, speaks orally to nonsigners up to 2, sometimes 3 people. If more than 3 or 4, he demands an ASL interpreter. He refuses to play the guessing game as most oral deaf always do. With his speech abiliy, he can talk to his doctor without an interpreter. He can place orders at the drive through face to face without writing on a piece of paper. He is more independent than I am.
It does not bother me, really. My remarks might bother some of you, Deaf people. You may think I am colonialized for thinking that having speech skills is desirable. Would you think a wheelchair bound person as colonialized for thinking tha being able to walk is better?
Anyway, I agree that AGB is NOT neutral. I do not know where some deaf/Deaf people get the idea that they are. They are actively telling parents that childre should NOT learn sign language or ASL because their speaking and listening skills will be slowed down. A parent of two deaf children who attend an oral school in our hometown told me a week ago that staff at that school told her not to sign to her children. She still does in secret. It is all beause of the inflitration of AGB philosophy.
Well…. I have an idea!
nacpac said,
August 1, 2008 @ 1:15 pm
oh crap! I accidentally pressed the submit comment before I could finish editing and adding my closing statement…. here goes….
The idea…..
Why don’t you and other ex-oralists or oral/signing Deaf (whatever you all call yourselves) team up and do vlogs showing you guys still can speak and how ASL enriched your lives. The message from ex-oralists would be more powerful than the message delivered by the signing culturally Deaf.
DrDonG said,
August 1, 2008 @ 2:46 pm
Hi NACPAC –
You’re probably right that AGB is referring to use of interpreters, but it is how they are phrasing things that is the problem — implying that only by having speech and hearing can one be “independent”. I notice they make no mention of the fact that some Oral Deaf use “oral interpreters”….
And yes, lipreading and hearing IS a big energy drain on all of us, implanted or not — quite a few years back, I went to a 3 day job interview at the University of Utah and was persuaded by my mom to try to use my hearing and speech in hopes that it might appeal to their audistic tendencies and they would hire me (didn’t work, which is why you know me now….). After those 3 days, I was SO worn out — physically and mentally — and amazed at how I was able to survive so long doing that before I entered MSSD!
I do have very intelligible speech — probably close to being a Hearing person’s speech, and I CAN use it with non-signers, when I choose to (for several reasons, I have chosen not to use it with most non-signers — maybe I’ll vlog about that someday….).
Really, I, like I think most Deaf people do, DO see the ability to use speech (and maybe hearing) as a nice “bonus”, if the person happens to have the hearing ability to develop those speech skills. It’s not being “colonialized” to see the ability to speak as a positive thing — the important thing is that VISUAL access to language must come first — then speaking can come with that — Bilingualism. (BTW, some wheelchair-bound people do view those who longingly yearn to walk as something of “colonialized” — ableized?)
I think there are a lot of ex-oralists who have already presented that message. Read some of Mark Drolsbaugh’s books. He has one that’s pretty recent: “On the Fence: The hidden world of the Hard of Hearing” (I think that’s the full title — the On the Fence part is definitely correct) in which he collected stories from a lot of HH people (some from Deaf families too) and many of them said just that — that signing enriched their lives and access to society….
Still, not a bad idea…. might be a good one for the DBC to produce.
richard roehm said,
August 1, 2008 @ 2:59 pm
If you don’t like the way I make hay over this. You can counter it with yours. But docking it off like you did only gets me to make a lot of hay over free speech supression by the ASL zealots at my speech next week at the audiologist mixer event.
Richard Roehm
DrDonG said,
August 1, 2008 @ 3:51 pm
What does “docking off” mean? And I didn’t see any previous comment by you, Richard. I’ve published a few of your comments before — as long as I or other people are not being insulted on a personal level, I usually do allow comments through.
nacpac said,
August 1, 2008 @ 5:53 pm
Don,
Yeah, my husband is like that too. He chooses not to talk with non-signers in some situations. I suspect his reason is the same as yours.
I sure hope DBC or the Deaf Community would do a film or a vlog focusing on former oralists or current oralists’ testimonies. Their testimonies should also include spoken language. See Barb Digi’s vlog with her grandmother? A powerful one, indeed. The project should also include hard of hearing people! Why? I hear the same argument over and over again that the children with cochlear implants do not/will not experience the same suffering as the oral children of yesteryear.
Oral hard of hearing people’s testimonies would be powerful as CI kids are technically hard of hearing.
How about class action lawsuit by the ex-oralists for their undue suffering growing up without sign language?
DrDonG said,
August 1, 2008 @ 6:31 pm
I’ve already forwarded your suggestion to DBC — I think it is a good one, and a good fit for DBC to do. Of course, they have many other projects to do, so when it would happen….????
A class action suit would really do wonders! Just gotta figure out how to make it happen and round up enough people who would be willing to sign up on the suit….
–DonG.
Ann_C said,
August 1, 2008 @ 9:49 pm
That’s right, a class-action suit would certainly make the deaf community look like an “entitled” community…*groan– banging my head on the table*.
Valhallian said,
August 1, 2008 @ 11:05 pm
I am the same way, I dont use my voice with signers either.
Nacpac, I do get the gist of what you are saying about about getting testimonies, but unfortunately, one singe video of a deaf child speaking would likely grab that attention of the hearing parent of a deaf child that is clueless about deafness more than 100 videos of testimonials of showing failures, simply because it offers that one single ray of hope and these parents will likely grasp onto that ray of hope. I don’t like it any more than you do, but that unfortunately is how it is.
DrDon, as much as I could entertain your idea of a class action lawsuit, the problem would not rounding up enough “plaintiffs” as you could likely find many, the big challenge would actually be finding a lawyer to take the case on a contingency basis. However it would be easy to find a lawyer that is willing to take this on a non-contingency basis and eat up your funds on an hourly basis, and trust me, they will gladly charge you up the arse.
DrDonG said,
August 2, 2008 @ 4:43 am
Val. –
Are you sure you grew up in the States? You use a lot of Britishisms… “aye”. “arse”… Anglophilic?
In all honesty, I don’t really expect to see a class action suit happening, partly for reasons you stated, although we might be able to find a Deaf lawyer who might be willing — we do have quite a few these days…. — the other problem would be to keep it from being thrown out of court — we haven’t gotten society to the point where a judge might be willing to entertain the idea.
As for NACPAC, she wasn’t talking about Deaf children, but Deaf adults, although your point about that “ray of hope” still applies.
I must say, though, you are a tricky one to figure out. Just when I thought I had you pegged, you come out with things like this last comment where you seem almost sympathetic to my way of thinking… Just out of curiosity… do you read Science Fiction? Ever read Orson Scott Card?